1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,680 This is our first bonus content. 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,120 David, what are we doing in this? 3 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,440 We're reading a review and talking about it. 4 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:06,160 Sounds good. 5 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,320 And then uh there's actually two reviews. 6 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,400 And with the second one, we have our special guest, Pat Barclay, along with us, which I 7 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,360 thought was super fun. 8 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:14,560 Yeah, Pat's great. 9 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,480 And uh it's a little sneak peek for his episode, which should be coming out uh soon. 10 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:19,040 Yep. 11 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,160 So everybody enjoy and we'll see you at our regularly regular Tuesday release uh in a 12 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:24,960 couple days. 13 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Uh and enjoy. 14 00:00:26,670 --> 00:00:27,310 Yep. 15 00:00:31,710 --> 00:00:33,550 You know, we do have a review. 16 00:00:33,790 --> 00:00:35,310 Have you read the review? 17 00:00:35,630 --> 00:00:35,950 No. 18 00:00:36,190 --> 00:00:37,790 Um, can I read it for you? 19 00:00:38,030 --> 00:00:38,670 Please do. 20 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:39,230 All right. 21 00:00:39,310 --> 00:00:40,830 So it's it from first. 22 00:00:41,150 --> 00:00:41,870 It's pretty funny. 23 00:00:41,950 --> 00:00:44,990 It's somebody named Um It's okay. 24 00:00:45,070 --> 00:00:48,830 It's something called Kiki So Solo. 25 00:00:49,470 --> 00:00:49,790 All right. 26 00:00:50,030 --> 00:00:50,830 Kiki Solo. 27 00:00:50,910 --> 00:00:51,150 Okay. 28 00:00:51,390 --> 00:00:54,430 And it's uh this is for Apple Podcasts. 29 00:00:54,670 --> 00:00:59,520 And you know, we have a 4.7 out of 5 ratings, but that's pretty interesting. 30 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,120 I'm just gonna read this for you. 31 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:01,520 Okay. 32 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:03,440 Pretty boring. 33 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Giving four stars though, so it doesn't tank their ratings. 34 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,800 That was kind of her. 35 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:08,960 Yeah. 36 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:09,360 Or him. 37 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,360 I don't know, Kiki's Kiki, a boy or girl, or whatever. 38 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,080 I'll say that both of the hosts are interesting people who are interested in interesting 39 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:16,560 things. 40 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,930 But I also have to say that this podcast is incredibly boring three episodes in. 41 00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:23,610 This is prior to any guests we've had. 42 00:01:23,930 --> 00:01:24,170 Wow. 43 00:01:24,250 --> 00:01:25,530 Well she made it through three episodes. 44 00:01:25,850 --> 00:01:26,810 Yeah, I mean, he or she. 45 00:01:27,050 --> 00:01:27,130 Yeah. 46 00:01:27,450 --> 00:01:29,210 That's pretty presumably we're doing something right. 47 00:01:29,530 --> 00:01:34,970 Yeah, I think they need to find a structure and home in on something specific each episode. 48 00:01:35,130 --> 00:01:39,050 It can't just be that they are two guys nerding out about Evo Psych. 49 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,200 Well, that that is this podcast. 50 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,840 I mean, that should be our tagline. 51 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,920 Two guys nerding out about Evo Psych. 52 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,480 That would be better than our current tagline. 53 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,200 That's really from the mouth of critics. 54 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Um, that will not keep an audience. 55 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,000 There needs to be some hook to the show, like we tell you, and you're gonna love this. 56 00:01:59,240 --> 00:01:59,640 Yeah. 57 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,000 Um uh there needs to be some hook to the show, like we tell you how to apply evolutionary 58 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,680 psychology in daily life. 59 00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:07,370 Okay. 60 00:02:07,930 --> 00:02:12,330 Or we talk about how evolutionary psychology can help us make sense of something in the 61 00:02:12,330 --> 00:02:12,730 world. 62 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:15,530 I kind of feel like we've done that a little bit. 63 00:02:15,770 --> 00:02:18,090 But this is and good Lord. 64 00:02:18,810 --> 00:02:18,970 Yeah. 65 00:02:19,290 --> 00:02:20,570 It was honestly a good piece of feedback. 66 00:02:20,650 --> 00:02:21,610 That was constructive. 67 00:02:21,850 --> 00:02:22,410 It was a good idea. 68 00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:26,490 Prior to when we had any guests, I think I would have probably written something similar to 69 00:02:26,490 --> 00:02:27,290 this if I didn't know. 70 00:02:27,450 --> 00:02:28,250 Here's the next sentence. 71 00:02:28,410 --> 00:02:29,690 And good Lord. 72 00:02:30,090 --> 00:02:31,370 Lord is capitalized. 73 00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:33,290 Please invite guests on the show. 74 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,120 Oh, well, they will be pleased to know that a torrent of guests coming up. 75 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:39,160 Many, many guests. 76 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:39,720 Exactly. 77 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:39,960 Yeah. 78 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:41,000 They might regret it. 79 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:46,760 Um so far, it feels like I am reading a textbook which is teaching me a bunch of 80 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:47,320 things. 81 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:48,040 Okay. 82 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:48,840 That's good. 83 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:50,440 I textbooks are cool. 84 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:50,840 Yeah. 85 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,320 But not telling me why I should care. 86 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:54,040 Hmm. 87 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:54,440 Okay. 88 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:54,760 Yeah. 89 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,240 Yeah. 90 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,000 It sort of assumes you care if you're listening. 91 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,560 But yeah, maybe we should tell people care. 92 00:02:59,870 --> 00:03:01,710 Yeah, and we're on the penultimate paragraph here. 93 00:03:01,790 --> 00:03:04,750 So this doesn't mean it has to be super deep and serious. 94 00:03:04,990 --> 00:03:07,390 I like when there's a type of I'll just skip over. 95 00:03:07,630 --> 00:03:11,150 I like when hosts can sort of goof around with each other and be silly. 96 00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:13,230 Uh we do get better at that. 97 00:03:13,310 --> 00:03:16,190 Um what we're doing right now is sort of silly. 98 00:03:16,350 --> 00:03:20,750 And then so even making fun of things about the world or political discourse or something 99 00:03:20,750 --> 00:03:22,030 would be entertaining. 100 00:03:22,350 --> 00:03:27,470 Um and this I agree with, but steer clear of the culture wars, that's my advice. 101 00:03:27,820 --> 00:03:28,060 Okay. 102 00:03:28,220 --> 00:03:31,500 I think we've done a pretty good job of steering clear of culture war stuff. 103 00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:31,900 Yeah. 104 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:36,140 And then uh the last uh thing is rooting for you guys. 105 00:03:38,140 --> 00:03:38,860 That's nice. 106 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:39,100 Yeah. 107 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:43,420 Honestly, like that was of all the critical reviews that was kind of a lovely I will take 108 00:03:43,420 --> 00:03:43,500 that. 109 00:03:43,580 --> 00:03:45,260 That's a good reviewer too, right there. 110 00:03:45,420 --> 00:03:45,660 Yeah. 111 00:03:45,740 --> 00:03:45,980 Yeah. 112 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:47,420 And you know where we were at. 113 00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:47,980 So yeah. 114 00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:48,940 So thank you so much. 115 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,140 If anybody else wants to uh thank you, Kiki, sincerely. 116 00:03:52,220 --> 00:03:52,540 Um yeah. 117 00:03:52,860 --> 00:03:56,230 We we will yeah we will take your your feedback uh seriously. 118 00:03:56,550 --> 00:04:01,830 Yeah, and we actually did uh prior to you even writing that because we had guests on 119 00:04:02,470 --> 00:04:03,350 from that point on. 120 00:04:03,510 --> 00:04:03,670 Yeah. 121 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:08,550 So but yeah, thank you for so please leave so that that was all a long-winded way of saying 122 00:04:08,710 --> 00:04:12,310 um please leave some reviews and we'll read them. 123 00:04:12,630 --> 00:04:13,430 We will, yeah. 124 00:04:13,590 --> 00:04:15,750 Maybe we'll we'll have a segment where we read them on the show. 125 00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:16,950 That sounds great. 126 00:04:17,660 --> 00:04:17,820 Okay. 127 00:04:17,900 --> 00:04:22,300 So please so that's a great incentive for you to write a review because then you'll get to 128 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:23,340 hear us read it. 129 00:04:23,660 --> 00:04:24,060 Yeah. 130 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:28,780 I mean we're gonna have we're gonna uh exercise some discretion, but but yeah. 131 00:04:31,020 --> 00:04:31,340 Great. 132 00:04:31,420 --> 00:04:35,740 So leave us a review um and visit our Patreon page. 133 00:04:37,900 --> 00:04:43,790 If you leave a bad review, then go to our Patreon page and uh um that's sways your f your 134 00:04:43,790 --> 00:04:44,750 feelings of guilt, yeah. 135 00:04:44,910 --> 00:04:45,150 Yeah. 136 00:04:45,310 --> 00:04:51,230 Or uh or um if you leave a good review, go to our Patreon page and that way 137 00:04:51,230 --> 00:04:54,350 you don't experience cognitive dissonance, which yeah. 138 00:04:57,550 --> 00:04:58,190 I do too too. 139 00:04:58,270 --> 00:05:03,660 It's a really powerful uh theory that um explains everything in pretty 140 00:05:04,460 --> 00:05:09,020 all of psychology and and the social sciences in general should should be subsumed by 141 00:05:09,020 --> 00:05:10,220 cognitive dissonance theory. 142 00:05:10,300 --> 00:05:14,140 I think it should I think it should be the meta the overarching theory for all of humanity. 143 00:05:14,380 --> 00:05:15,740 Cool cognitive dissonance theory. 144 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:18,220 Cognitive dissonance the podcast? 145 00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:19,900 I mean banger. 146 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:22,380 This thing this thing writes itself. 147 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:27,910 I know um we could even have some dissonant music going in the intro. 148 00:05:28,310 --> 00:05:29,910 Wow, that's yeah. 149 00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:35,990 Um or not, and then we can just sort of explain that away by um um I 150 00:05:35,990 --> 00:05:40,790 mean the history of that is that uh I think there were people who were in doomsday cults 151 00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:45,910 and the people who, you know, the next day after the end of the world was predicted, it was 152 00:05:45,910 --> 00:05:48,630 like the study of like how do they justify that. 153 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,640 So it's not a crazy idea, but no. 154 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,160 No, no, yeah. 155 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,680 But um Yeah, but that that the the best way to understand that is in terms of 156 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:03,200 analogizing the human mind to an orchestra and a belief that makes you feel uncomfortable 157 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:04,560 as a dissonant note. 158 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:05,120 Right. 159 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:11,170 Um maybe not the most perspicuous way of understanding the the cognition behind 160 00:06:11,250 --> 00:06:12,450 uh doomsday holes. 161 00:06:12,690 --> 00:06:12,770 Right. 162 00:06:12,850 --> 00:06:17,410 Or the idea that people can't hold two conflicting ideas at once and have a problem with 163 00:06:17,410 --> 00:06:22,930 that is I would say possibly naive, bordering on dangerous view of human nature given the h 164 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:27,570 history of political and alliance based machinations in the world. 165 00:06:28,130 --> 00:06:30,050 Yes, could not agree more with that. 166 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:32,850 Wow Dave, I can't believe we're still going we're going here. 167 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:34,290 This is a really long outro. 168 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:36,930 This might be a short bonus moment here. 169 00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:40,700 We'll see if Naomi edits this or not, or if she has the gall to keep all of it. 170 00:06:40,940 --> 00:06:41,100 Yeah. 171 00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,020 But maybe we can just have it as a bonus. 172 00:06:43,180 --> 00:06:44,380 We read our reviews. 173 00:06:49,260 --> 00:06:51,340 So David, uh, good to see you. 174 00:06:51,740 --> 00:06:52,700 Good to see you too. 175 00:06:52,940 --> 00:06:55,500 Um, so this is a sort of special bonus thing. 176 00:06:55,580 --> 00:06:57,020 Uh does my mic sound okay? 177 00:06:57,180 --> 00:06:58,220 Um sounds good to me. 178 00:06:58,380 --> 00:06:59,580 Okay, I'm all I'm all worried about it. 179 00:06:59,660 --> 00:06:59,900 Okay. 180 00:06:59,980 --> 00:07:05,260 Uh so David, we have a second review on Apple Podcasts, and we have our our 181 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:08,770 interview with us, Pat Barclay. 182 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:09,810 Pat, you want to say hi? 183 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:10,450 Hi. 184 00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:12,530 Um you're welcome. 185 00:07:12,610 --> 00:07:16,610 And so we're gonna release your episode probably later than this particular part's coming 186 00:07:16,610 --> 00:07:19,730 up, but we're gonna read um this second review. 187 00:07:19,810 --> 00:07:24,210 Okay, so David, because we David and I read our first review, and now we're gonna read our 188 00:07:24,210 --> 00:07:24,610 second one. 189 00:07:24,770 --> 00:07:26,850 So, David and Pat, are you guys ready? 190 00:07:27,250 --> 00:07:28,140 Yeah, Okay. 191 00:07:28,460 --> 00:07:33,820 Um, so the one thing to say is this is although it's our second review, um, it's actually 192 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:36,780 by the same person who left the first review. 193 00:07:37,100 --> 00:07:42,780 They actually took the first review down, oh, uh, which was in response to our first three 194 00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:46,780 episodes, uh where which was prior to us having any guests. 195 00:07:46,940 --> 00:07:52,380 God one of the the bottom line things they said was you should really have guests on. 196 00:07:52,620 --> 00:07:53,090 God it. 197 00:07:53,810 --> 00:07:55,410 Subsequently, we've had guests on. 198 00:07:55,730 --> 00:07:56,050 Interesting. 199 00:07:56,610 --> 00:07:57,330 So this is Kiki. 200 00:07:58,130 --> 00:07:59,810 This is Kiki So Solo. 201 00:08:00,050 --> 00:08:00,290 Okay. 202 00:08:00,370 --> 00:08:01,490 And this is a shorter. 203 00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:02,130 All right. 204 00:08:02,210 --> 00:08:02,290 Yeah. 205 00:08:02,370 --> 00:08:02,530 Cool. 206 00:08:02,850 --> 00:08:04,290 I think it's Khaki so so. 207 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:05,570 It's really hard to read. 208 00:08:05,730 --> 00:08:06,930 It's really hard to enunciate. 209 00:08:07,010 --> 00:08:09,650 I mean, I have hard enough trouble enunciating normal words. 210 00:08:09,730 --> 00:08:11,970 It's hard to enunciate uh usernames or screen names. 211 00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:12,450 So okay. 212 00:08:12,610 --> 00:08:12,770 Okay. 213 00:08:13,730 --> 00:08:15,570 Again, four out of five stars. 214 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:15,970 Okay. 215 00:08:16,130 --> 00:08:19,410 The title of this review is Skip 40 Minutes. 216 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:21,060 Um okay. 217 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:24,580 Every episode they then Pat, we're gonna sort of preview this for you. 218 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:26,500 We're gonna you're gonna be spoiler alert. 219 00:08:26,660 --> 00:08:32,580 Every episode, they spend about 40 minutes going on the life journey of each guest, most of 220 00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:34,740 whom the audience does not know. 221 00:08:35,300 --> 00:08:40,660 Intros for guests should either be absent or like three minutes. 222 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:42,420 Okay. 223 00:08:43,790 --> 00:08:48,750 That's unfortunate because I I planned a 40-minute spiel on exactly how I got to where I 224 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:48,910 am. 225 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:50,270 Well now I've got to scrap it. 226 00:08:50,590 --> 00:08:53,310 We're we're going to if you can do it in three minutes, but otherwise. 227 00:08:53,470 --> 00:08:59,470 No, I mean I I take the point, but um well, I don't I I I'll I'll uh I'll 228 00:08:59,470 --> 00:09:01,150 read the rest and then we can maybe talk about it. 229 00:09:01,310 --> 00:09:06,110 Because in Pat, I I also, you know, we're biased, but you're a fairly objective third 230 00:09:06,110 --> 00:09:07,230 party, even though you know us. 231 00:09:07,310 --> 00:09:09,500 So maybe you can give some thoughts about this. 232 00:09:09,660 --> 00:09:09,900 Okay. 233 00:09:10,060 --> 00:09:11,340 So there's just two paragraphs. 234 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:12,060 That was the first one. 235 00:09:12,140 --> 00:09:16,940 The second one is they should also practice holding the audience's hand throughout the 236 00:09:16,940 --> 00:09:21,500 conversation rather than just name dropping and jargon dropping. 237 00:09:21,820 --> 00:09:23,260 I don't disagree with that. 238 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:28,860 Um also for podcasts, it is it's it's better to talk less about the 239 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,740 research and more about the implications. 240 00:09:32,380 --> 00:09:38,140 I don't, I don't, unless it is a dedication article slash lit review. 241 00:09:39,990 --> 00:09:40,310 Okay. 242 00:09:40,550 --> 00:09:45,110 I mean it maybe more or less the same sort of general note as the previous one. 243 00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:50,230 You know, talk more about the implications, avoid the boring stuff about you know academic 244 00:09:50,230 --> 00:09:50,470 journey. 245 00:09:51,430 --> 00:09:52,470 Pat's life, yeah. 246 00:09:53,110 --> 00:09:55,350 Sorry, Pat's a boring life, you know. 247 00:09:55,830 --> 00:09:57,750 No, I I'm sure that's not true. 248 00:09:58,390 --> 00:09:59,750 No, I I mean I think that's fair. 249 00:09:59,910 --> 00:10:04,920 I mean we're probably more interested to learn about the origin stories of of um people we 250 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,840 respect and admire in the field than probably the average uh person is. 251 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:09,320 Yeah. 252 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,000 Um what what do you think, Pat? 253 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,440 I I can understand wanting to keep the the personal stories, you know, n not from being too 254 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,360 too long, like a short overview. 255 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,080 Somebody might have a fun uh an anecdote or two. 256 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:27,080 Um you know, I I I can I agree with a bit about um uh you know 257 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,040 dropping like the names and and and jargon. 258 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,950 I mean I enjoyed it. 259 00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:34,990 You know, when you you can you can mention that, but I'm in the field, right? 260 00:10:35,070 --> 00:10:37,550 I know these names, I know the ideas. 261 00:10:37,710 --> 00:10:37,950 Yeah. 262 00:10:38,110 --> 00:10:40,190 Um, so it depends on who you're speaking to. 263 00:10:40,350 --> 00:10:46,350 If you're trying to speak to people outside the field, then the more that you can do to 264 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:48,110 bring people on board helps. 265 00:10:48,430 --> 00:10:52,110 Um, as for the question about do you want to talk about the implications or about the 266 00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:56,840 research itself, uh I might disagree with that review on that one. 267 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,920 I mean, because you know, to hear about the research, that's the fascinating part. 268 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:06,680 And you you can't talk about implications unless you talk about the research first to make 269 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,120 sure that both the ideas are clear, but also to have a good idea. 270 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Well, how strong is that conclusion? 271 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,710 What evidence is that based on? 272 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:20,110 And you know, if it's one study and you realize, oh, okay, it's based on you know one 273 00:11:20,110 --> 00:11:25,310 particular study, to what extent do we want to dictate national policy based on one study? 274 00:11:25,550 --> 00:11:29,550 Well, maybe this is more of an idea of something we might want to follow up on. 275 00:11:29,870 --> 00:11:35,710 Yeah, no, I definitely agree that there is an over-eagerness to um apply the 276 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:41,140 uh meager insights from our uh you know shoddy research um to 277 00:11:41,460 --> 00:11:43,940 policy to the world to overstate their implications. 278 00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:45,780 For better or for worse, right? 279 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:46,900 For better or for worse, yeah. 280 00:11:48,420 --> 00:11:50,100 I I think we ought to humble ourselves more. 281 00:11:50,260 --> 00:11:54,580 But you know, I do take the point that uh if you're a general listener who is not in our 282 00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:56,900 weird field, you want to know why this matters. 283 00:11:57,060 --> 00:12:00,820 Um and I, you know, of course, it's good to get to the research and state the evidence 284 00:12:00,820 --> 00:12:05,830 clearly and and all that, But also, you know, if someone's listening outside of this field, 285 00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:07,110 they want to know what's in it for them. 286 00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:08,310 Why should why they should care. 287 00:12:08,390 --> 00:12:10,070 And we should spend some time talking about that. 288 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:12,310 I think that's that's a valid uh yeah. 289 00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:12,710 Yeah. 290 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:17,750 I and I I don't want to spend too much time navel gazing and we'll we'll and we'll start 291 00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:19,110 the Pat episode in a second. 292 00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:21,110 But Pat, thanks for for being with us. 293 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:25,180 Um I also want to say like I think that uh there's I have two thoughts. 294 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:29,580 One is, well, yeah, I mean, I agree with what the reviewer is saying to some degree, but I 295 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:30,940 also agree with Pat that I disagree. 296 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:31,900 It's very confusing. 297 00:12:31,980 --> 00:12:32,940 I shouldn't have said that. 298 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:39,100 But um one thing is the people who are typically out there 299 00:12:39,100 --> 00:12:44,940 presenting themselves as representing evolutionary psychology are not the people that we 300 00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:47,260 often recognize as people actually doing the work. 301 00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:53,070 And Pat is like a lovely example of somebody who's like who I think is 302 00:12:53,070 --> 00:12:57,790 doing, you know, has done so much of the backbone work on cooperation and solving the the 303 00:12:57,870 --> 00:12:59,550 the puzzles of cooperation. 304 00:12:59,950 --> 00:13:05,550 Um and and so one of the reasons to introduce people is to actually like introduce the 305 00:13:05,550 --> 00:13:09,070 people because like how are you going to get to know them if you don't hear something about 306 00:13:09,070 --> 00:13:09,310 them? 307 00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:14,990 Um so I agree that you know, maybe maybe we can cut it down from like an hour to like 40 308 00:13:14,990 --> 00:13:17,950 minutes, but I don't think it should just be like three minutes. 309 00:13:18,030 --> 00:13:19,630 Um and there's just different ways to do it. 310 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,480 Um, there's there's a middle ground there. 311 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:21,720 Yeah. 312 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,000 Um and and and certainly we've been trying to you know we're trying to get better at you 313 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,480 know defining jargon and making sure that you know stuff is you know properly accessible. 314 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:30,840 Yeah, it's done better at it. 315 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,040 These are the early days. 316 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,560 So uh but yeah, no, for sure. 317 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:39,000 In in um when we have our guests on, um we're we're trying to sort of hang hang on, what 318 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:39,560 does this mean? 319 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,480 But um but you can also look things up too. 320 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:46,280 So, you know, and I do think there is a problem with sort of overhand holding to the point 321 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,370 of sort of exactly as Pat said, exploiting. 322 00:13:49,450 --> 00:13:55,050 So I think there's a problem of sort of I tell my kids in my classes that like be careful 323 00:13:55,050 --> 00:13:57,050 of like high production value things. 324 00:13:57,130 --> 00:14:01,130 Like I always tell them if somebody came up to you who's very attractive, well dressed, and 325 00:14:01,130 --> 00:14:02,490 they say, Hey, do you have a moment? 326 00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:04,490 Do I can I have a moment of your time? 327 00:14:04,650 --> 00:14:06,010 What do you immediately think? 328 00:14:07,450 --> 00:14:08,970 They're they're selling you something, right? 329 00:14:09,130 --> 00:14:14,880 And so this is just falls out of signaling where like if the things that are in your 330 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:20,400 interest are not going to be things that come at you loud or that spend a lot of 331 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,120 effort on um on you. 332 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,320 So like be careful of high production value stuff, right? 333 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,840 Uh and be careful of things people trying to sell you stuff in in this context, like you 334 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,920 know, it's a hundred percent the case that we're not always talking about the implications 335 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,440 or why you should care. 336 00:14:37,850 --> 00:14:40,010 And maybe we can spend more time doing that. 337 00:14:40,170 --> 00:14:42,570 But that's also something for you to think about. 338 00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:48,410 And we're our job is to sort of be careful about the science. 339 00:14:48,890 --> 00:14:52,890 And I think there's too much stuff that doesn't understand the science and just is trying 340 00:14:52,890 --> 00:14:55,610 to sell you an implication that doesn't even fall out. 341 00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:58,650 And so it's it makes sense that these are issues. 342 00:14:58,730 --> 00:15:03,450 And I think this person's also probably coming from a place where if you've been fed 343 00:15:03,450 --> 00:15:08,920 implications and interest to the point where it's actually even problematic, then it feels 344 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,200 sort of like you're getting something you're not expecting. 345 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:13,160 Yeah. 346 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:14,840 No, I totally buy all that. 347 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,160 But I would I would say that you know that point itself is an implication that should 348 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:25,000 matter to a general audience, that it's good to, you know, avoid being manipulated 349 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,550 by people who are exploiting, you know, one shoddy study and overstating its 350 00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:35,190 implications that this is a thing we should all be conscious of as consumers of 351 00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:35,830 information. 352 00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:41,670 Um so that is is potentially relevant and interesting to to people that aren't in our 353 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:41,990 field. 354 00:15:42,390 --> 00:15:42,790 That's right. 355 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:45,430 Uh wear red and be confident a hundred percent. 356 00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:47,670 Um you know if you wear red you'll be more confident. 357 00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:51,030 So wear red and you'll get the job and the mate you want, et cetera, et cetera. 358 00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:51,190 Yeah. 359 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:53,510 That kind of stuff will yeah, try to avoid that. 360 00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:54,540 Um, okay. 361 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:56,460 Uh thank you, Pat, for being along for this. 362 00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:57,980 Do you have a final thought, Pat? 363 00:15:58,780 --> 00:16:01,180 Uh no, I guess I'm ready to uh ready to get going. 364 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:03,820 All right, also thank thank you to Kiki sincerely. 365 00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:08,860 Yes, it's for yeah, we really do care about uh these reviews and take them seriously. 366 00:16:09,020 --> 00:16:12,860 And please, uh if you have other comments, please let us know and we'll we will try to 367 00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,860 incorporate them as much as possible. 368 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:20,530 Um and uh and read them again w while practicing discretion. 369 00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:21,650 So thank you again. 370 00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:26,290 Um and uh yeah we'll we'll see you see you Pat in a moment. 371 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:26,850 Okay.