WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.680 This is our first bonus content. 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:03.120 David, what are we doing in this? 00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:05.440 We're reading a review and talking about it. 00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:06.160 Sounds good. 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:08.320 And then uh there's actually two reviews. 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.400 And with the second one, we have our special guest, Pat Barclay, along with us, which I 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:13.360 thought was super fun. 00:00:13.600 --> 00:00:14.560 Yeah, Pat's great. 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.480 And uh it's a little sneak peek for his episode, which should be coming out uh soon. 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:19.040 Yep. 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:24.160 So everybody enjoy and we'll see you at our regularly regular Tuesday release uh in a 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:24.960 couple days. 00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:26.400 Uh and enjoy. 00:00:26.670 --> 00:00:27.310 Yep. 00:00:31.710 --> 00:00:33.550 You know, we do have a review. 00:00:33.790 --> 00:00:35.310 Have you read the review? 00:00:35.630 --> 00:00:35.950 No. 00:00:36.190 --> 00:00:37.790 Um, can I read it for you? 00:00:38.030 --> 00:00:38.670 Please do. 00:00:38.830 --> 00:00:39.230 All right. 00:00:39.310 --> 00:00:40.830 So it's it from first. 00:00:41.150 --> 00:00:41.870 It's pretty funny. 00:00:41.950 --> 00:00:44.990 It's somebody named Um It's okay. 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:48.830 It's something called Kiki So Solo. 00:00:49.470 --> 00:00:49.790 All right. 00:00:50.030 --> 00:00:50.830 Kiki Solo. 00:00:50.910 --> 00:00:51.150 Okay. 00:00:51.390 --> 00:00:54.430 And it's uh this is for Apple Podcasts. 00:00:54.670 --> 00:00:59.520 And you know, we have a 4.7 out of 5 ratings, but that's pretty interesting. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.120 I'm just gonna read this for you. 00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:01.520 Okay. 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:03.440 Pretty boring. 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:07.280 Giving four stars though, so it doesn't tank their ratings. 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:08.800 That was kind of her. 00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:08.960 Yeah. 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:09.360 Or him. 00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:11.360 I don't know, Kiki's Kiki, a boy or girl, or whatever. 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:16.080 I'll say that both of the hosts are interesting people who are interested in interesting 00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:16.560 things. 00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:21.930 But I also have to say that this podcast is incredibly boring three episodes in. 00:01:22.010 --> 00:01:23.610 This is prior to any guests we've had. 00:01:23.930 --> 00:01:24.170 Wow. 00:01:24.250 --> 00:01:25.530 Well she made it through three episodes. 00:01:25.850 --> 00:01:26.810 Yeah, I mean, he or she. 00:01:27.050 --> 00:01:27.130 Yeah. 00:01:27.450 --> 00:01:29.210 That's pretty presumably we're doing something right. 00:01:29.530 --> 00:01:34.970 Yeah, I think they need to find a structure and home in on something specific each episode. 00:01:35.130 --> 00:01:39.050 It can't just be that they are two guys nerding out about Evo Psych. 00:01:39.720 --> 00:01:42.200 Well, that that is this podcast. 00:01:43.240 --> 00:01:44.840 I mean, that should be our tagline. 00:01:45.080 --> 00:01:46.920 Two guys nerding out about Evo Psych. 00:01:47.240 --> 00:01:49.480 That would be better than our current tagline. 00:01:49.800 --> 00:01:52.200 That's really from the mouth of critics. 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:54.520 Um, that will not keep an audience. 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:59.000 There needs to be some hook to the show, like we tell you, and you're gonna love this. 00:01:59.240 --> 00:01:59.640 Yeah. 00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:05.000 Um uh there needs to be some hook to the show, like we tell you how to apply evolutionary 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.680 psychology in daily life. 00:02:07.210 --> 00:02:07.370 Okay. 00:02:07.930 --> 00:02:12.330 Or we talk about how evolutionary psychology can help us make sense of something in the 00:02:12.330 --> 00:02:12.730 world. 00:02:13.530 --> 00:02:15.530 I kind of feel like we've done that a little bit. 00:02:15.770 --> 00:02:18.090 But this is and good Lord. 00:02:18.810 --> 00:02:18.970 Yeah. 00:02:19.290 --> 00:02:20.570 It was honestly a good piece of feedback. 00:02:20.650 --> 00:02:21.610 That was constructive. 00:02:21.850 --> 00:02:22.410 It was a good idea. 00:02:22.970 --> 00:02:26.490 Prior to when we had any guests, I think I would have probably written something similar to 00:02:26.490 --> 00:02:27.290 this if I didn't know. 00:02:27.450 --> 00:02:28.250 Here's the next sentence. 00:02:28.410 --> 00:02:29.690 And good Lord. 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:31.370 Lord is capitalized. 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:33.290 Please invite guests on the show. 00:02:33.720 --> 00:02:38.120 Oh, well, they will be pleased to know that a torrent of guests coming up. 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:39.160 Many, many guests. 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:39.720 Exactly. 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:39.960 Yeah. 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:41.000 They might regret it. 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:46.760 Um so far, it feels like I am reading a textbook which is teaching me a bunch of 00:02:46.760 --> 00:02:47.320 things. 00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:48.040 Okay. 00:02:48.440 --> 00:02:48.840 That's good. 00:02:48.920 --> 00:02:50.440 I textbooks are cool. 00:02:50.600 --> 00:02:50.840 Yeah. 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.320 But not telling me why I should care. 00:02:53.640 --> 00:02:54.040 Hmm. 00:02:54.200 --> 00:02:54.440 Okay. 00:02:54.600 --> 00:02:54.760 Yeah. 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:55.240 Yeah. 00:02:55.320 --> 00:02:57.000 It sort of assumes you care if you're listening. 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.560 But yeah, maybe we should tell people care. 00:02:59.870 --> 00:03:01.710 Yeah, and we're on the penultimate paragraph here. 00:03:01.790 --> 00:03:04.750 So this doesn't mean it has to be super deep and serious. 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:07.390 I like when there's a type of I'll just skip over. 00:03:07.630 --> 00:03:11.150 I like when hosts can sort of goof around with each other and be silly. 00:03:11.630 --> 00:03:13.230 Uh we do get better at that. 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:16.190 Um what we're doing right now is sort of silly. 00:03:16.350 --> 00:03:20.750 And then so even making fun of things about the world or political discourse or something 00:03:20.750 --> 00:03:22.030 would be entertaining. 00:03:22.350 --> 00:03:27.470 Um and this I agree with, but steer clear of the culture wars, that's my advice. 00:03:27.820 --> 00:03:28.060 Okay. 00:03:28.220 --> 00:03:31.500 I think we've done a pretty good job of steering clear of culture war stuff. 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:31.900 Yeah. 00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:36.140 And then uh the last uh thing is rooting for you guys. 00:03:38.140 --> 00:03:38.860 That's nice. 00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:39.100 Yeah. 00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:43.420 Honestly, like that was of all the critical reviews that was kind of a lovely I will take 00:03:43.420 --> 00:03:43.500 that. 00:03:43.580 --> 00:03:45.260 That's a good reviewer too, right there. 00:03:45.420 --> 00:03:45.660 Yeah. 00:03:45.740 --> 00:03:45.980 Yeah. 00:03:46.140 --> 00:03:47.420 And you know where we were at. 00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:47.980 So yeah. 00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:48.940 So thank you so much. 00:03:49.100 --> 00:03:52.140 If anybody else wants to uh thank you, Kiki, sincerely. 00:03:52.220 --> 00:03:52.540 Um yeah. 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:56.230 We we will yeah we will take your your feedback uh seriously. 00:03:56.550 --> 00:04:01.830 Yeah, and we actually did uh prior to you even writing that because we had guests on 00:04:02.470 --> 00:04:03.350 from that point on. 00:04:03.510 --> 00:04:03.670 Yeah. 00:04:03.750 --> 00:04:08.550 So but yeah, thank you for so please leave so that that was all a long-winded way of saying 00:04:08.710 --> 00:04:12.310 um please leave some reviews and we'll read them. 00:04:12.630 --> 00:04:13.430 We will, yeah. 00:04:13.590 --> 00:04:15.750 Maybe we'll we'll have a segment where we read them on the show. 00:04:15.990 --> 00:04:16.950 That sounds great. 00:04:17.660 --> 00:04:17.820 Okay. 00:04:17.900 --> 00:04:22.300 So please so that's a great incentive for you to write a review because then you'll get to 00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:23.340 hear us read it. 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:24.060 Yeah. 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:28.780 I mean we're gonna have we're gonna uh exercise some discretion, but but yeah. 00:04:31.020 --> 00:04:31.340 Great. 00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:35.740 So leave us a review um and visit our Patreon page. 00:04:37.900 --> 00:04:43.790 If you leave a bad review, then go to our Patreon page and uh um that's sways your f your 00:04:43.790 --> 00:04:44.750 feelings of guilt, yeah. 00:04:44.910 --> 00:04:45.150 Yeah. 00:04:45.310 --> 00:04:51.230 Or uh or um if you leave a good review, go to our Patreon page and that way 00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:54.350 you don't experience cognitive dissonance, which yeah. 00:04:57.550 --> 00:04:58.190 I do too too. 00:04:58.270 --> 00:05:03.660 It's a really powerful uh theory that um explains everything in pretty 00:05:04.460 --> 00:05:09.020 all of psychology and and the social sciences in general should should be subsumed by 00:05:09.020 --> 00:05:10.220 cognitive dissonance theory. 00:05:10.300 --> 00:05:14.140 I think it should I think it should be the meta the overarching theory for all of humanity. 00:05:14.380 --> 00:05:15.740 Cool cognitive dissonance theory. 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:18.220 Cognitive dissonance the podcast? 00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:19.900 I mean banger. 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:22.380 This thing this thing writes itself. 00:05:22.700 --> 00:05:27.910 I know um we could even have some dissonant music going in the intro. 00:05:28.310 --> 00:05:29.910 Wow, that's yeah. 00:05:30.070 --> 00:05:35.990 Um or not, and then we can just sort of explain that away by um um I 00:05:35.990 --> 00:05:40.790 mean the history of that is that uh I think there were people who were in doomsday cults 00:05:40.950 --> 00:05:45.910 and the people who, you know, the next day after the end of the world was predicted, it was 00:05:45.910 --> 00:05:48.630 like the study of like how do they justify that. 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:50.640 So it's not a crazy idea, but no. 00:05:51.200 --> 00:05:52.160 No, no, yeah. 00:05:52.320 --> 00:05:57.680 But um Yeah, but that that the the best way to understand that is in terms of 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:03.200 analogizing the human mind to an orchestra and a belief that makes you feel uncomfortable 00:06:03.280 --> 00:06:04.560 as a dissonant note. 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:05.120 Right. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:11.170 Um maybe not the most perspicuous way of understanding the the cognition behind 00:06:11.250 --> 00:06:12.450 uh doomsday holes. 00:06:12.690 --> 00:06:12.770 Right. 00:06:12.850 --> 00:06:17.410 Or the idea that people can't hold two conflicting ideas at once and have a problem with 00:06:17.410 --> 00:06:22.930 that is I would say possibly naive, bordering on dangerous view of human nature given the h 00:06:23.250 --> 00:06:27.570 history of political and alliance based machinations in the world. 00:06:28.130 --> 00:06:30.050 Yes, could not agree more with that. 00:06:30.290 --> 00:06:32.850 Wow Dave, I can't believe we're still going we're going here. 00:06:33.250 --> 00:06:34.290 This is a really long outro. 00:06:34.850 --> 00:06:36.930 This might be a short bonus moment here. 00:06:37.580 --> 00:06:40.700 We'll see if Naomi edits this or not, or if she has the gall to keep all of it. 00:06:40.940 --> 00:06:41.100 Yeah. 00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:43.020 But maybe we can just have it as a bonus. 00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:44.380 We read our reviews. 00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:51.340 So David, uh, good to see you. 00:06:51.740 --> 00:06:52.700 Good to see you too. 00:06:52.940 --> 00:06:55.500 Um, so this is a sort of special bonus thing. 00:06:55.580 --> 00:06:57.020 Uh does my mic sound okay? 00:06:57.180 --> 00:06:58.220 Um sounds good to me. 00:06:58.380 --> 00:06:59.580 Okay, I'm all I'm all worried about it. 00:06:59.660 --> 00:06:59.900 Okay. 00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:05.260 Uh so David, we have a second review on Apple Podcasts, and we have our our 00:07:05.260 --> 00:07:08.770 interview with us, Pat Barclay. 00:07:08.850 --> 00:07:09.810 Pat, you want to say hi? 00:07:10.130 --> 00:07:10.450 Hi. 00:07:10.610 --> 00:07:12.530 Um you're welcome. 00:07:12.610 --> 00:07:16.610 And so we're gonna release your episode probably later than this particular part's coming 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:19.730 up, but we're gonna read um this second review. 00:07:19.810 --> 00:07:24.210 Okay, so David, because we David and I read our first review, and now we're gonna read our 00:07:24.210 --> 00:07:24.610 second one. 00:07:24.770 --> 00:07:26.850 So, David and Pat, are you guys ready? 00:07:27.250 --> 00:07:28.140 Yeah, Okay. 00:07:28.460 --> 00:07:33.820 Um, so the one thing to say is this is although it's our second review, um, it's actually 00:07:33.820 --> 00:07:36.780 by the same person who left the first review. 00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:42.780 They actually took the first review down, oh, uh, which was in response to our first three 00:07:42.780 --> 00:07:46.780 episodes, uh where which was prior to us having any guests. 00:07:46.940 --> 00:07:52.380 God one of the the bottom line things they said was you should really have guests on. 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:53.090 God it. 00:07:53.810 --> 00:07:55.410 Subsequently, we've had guests on. 00:07:55.730 --> 00:07:56.050 Interesting. 00:07:56.610 --> 00:07:57.330 So this is Kiki. 00:07:58.130 --> 00:07:59.810 This is Kiki So Solo. 00:08:00.050 --> 00:08:00.290 Okay. 00:08:00.370 --> 00:08:01.490 And this is a shorter. 00:08:01.970 --> 00:08:02.130 All right. 00:08:02.210 --> 00:08:02.290 Yeah. 00:08:02.370 --> 00:08:02.530 Cool. 00:08:02.850 --> 00:08:04.290 I think it's Khaki so so. 00:08:04.530 --> 00:08:05.570 It's really hard to read. 00:08:05.730 --> 00:08:06.930 It's really hard to enunciate. 00:08:07.010 --> 00:08:09.650 I mean, I have hard enough trouble enunciating normal words. 00:08:09.730 --> 00:08:11.970 It's hard to enunciate uh usernames or screen names. 00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:12.450 So okay. 00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:12.770 Okay. 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:15.570 Again, four out of five stars. 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:15.970 Okay. 00:08:16.130 --> 00:08:19.410 The title of this review is Skip 40 Minutes. 00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:21.060 Um okay. 00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:24.580 Every episode they then Pat, we're gonna sort of preview this for you. 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:26.500 We're gonna you're gonna be spoiler alert. 00:08:26.660 --> 00:08:32.580 Every episode, they spend about 40 minutes going on the life journey of each guest, most of 00:08:32.580 --> 00:08:34.740 whom the audience does not know. 00:08:35.300 --> 00:08:40.660 Intros for guests should either be absent or like three minutes. 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:42.420 Okay. 00:08:43.790 --> 00:08:48.750 That's unfortunate because I I planned a 40-minute spiel on exactly how I got to where I 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:48.910 am. 00:08:49.150 --> 00:08:50.270 Well now I've got to scrap it. 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:53.310 We're we're going to if you can do it in three minutes, but otherwise. 00:08:53.470 --> 00:08:59.470 No, I mean I I take the point, but um well, I don't I I I'll I'll uh I'll 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:01.150 read the rest and then we can maybe talk about it. 00:09:01.310 --> 00:09:06.110 Because in Pat, I I also, you know, we're biased, but you're a fairly objective third 00:09:06.110 --> 00:09:07.230 party, even though you know us. 00:09:07.310 --> 00:09:09.500 So maybe you can give some thoughts about this. 00:09:09.660 --> 00:09:09.900 Okay. 00:09:10.060 --> 00:09:11.340 So there's just two paragraphs. 00:09:11.420 --> 00:09:12.060 That was the first one. 00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:16.940 The second one is they should also practice holding the audience's hand throughout the 00:09:16.940 --> 00:09:21.500 conversation rather than just name dropping and jargon dropping. 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:23.260 I don't disagree with that. 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:28.860 Um also for podcasts, it is it's it's better to talk less about the 00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:31.740 research and more about the implications. 00:09:32.380 --> 00:09:38.140 I don't, I don't, unless it is a dedication article slash lit review. 00:09:39.990 --> 00:09:40.310 Okay. 00:09:40.550 --> 00:09:45.110 I mean it maybe more or less the same sort of general note as the previous one. 00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:50.230 You know, talk more about the implications, avoid the boring stuff about you know academic 00:09:50.230 --> 00:09:50.470 journey. 00:09:51.430 --> 00:09:52.470 Pat's life, yeah. 00:09:53.110 --> 00:09:55.350 Sorry, Pat's a boring life, you know. 00:09:55.830 --> 00:09:57.750 No, I I'm sure that's not true. 00:09:58.390 --> 00:09:59.750 No, I I mean I think that's fair. 00:09:59.910 --> 00:10:04.920 I mean we're probably more interested to learn about the origin stories of of um people we 00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:08.840 respect and admire in the field than probably the average uh person is. 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:09.320 Yeah. 00:10:09.400 --> 00:10:11.000 Um what what do you think, Pat? 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:16.440 I I can understand wanting to keep the the personal stories, you know, n not from being too 00:10:16.520 --> 00:10:18.360 too long, like a short overview. 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.080 Somebody might have a fun uh an anecdote or two. 00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:27.080 Um you know, I I I can I agree with a bit about um uh you know 00:10:27.160 --> 00:10:30.040 dropping like the names and and and jargon. 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:31.950 I mean I enjoyed it. 00:10:32.030 --> 00:10:34.990 You know, when you you can you can mention that, but I'm in the field, right? 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:37.550 I know these names, I know the ideas. 00:10:37.710 --> 00:10:37.950 Yeah. 00:10:38.110 --> 00:10:40.190 Um, so it depends on who you're speaking to. 00:10:40.350 --> 00:10:46.350 If you're trying to speak to people outside the field, then the more that you can do to 00:10:46.350 --> 00:10:48.110 bring people on board helps. 00:10:48.430 --> 00:10:52.110 Um, as for the question about do you want to talk about the implications or about the 00:10:52.110 --> 00:10:56.840 research itself, uh I might disagree with that review on that one. 00:10:56.920 --> 00:11:00.920 I mean, because you know, to hear about the research, that's the fascinating part. 00:11:01.160 --> 00:11:06.680 And you you can't talk about implications unless you talk about the research first to make 00:11:06.680 --> 00:11:10.120 sure that both the ideas are clear, but also to have a good idea. 00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:13.000 Well, how strong is that conclusion? 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:15.710 What evidence is that based on? 00:11:15.950 --> 00:11:20.110 And you know, if it's one study and you realize, oh, okay, it's based on you know one 00:11:20.110 --> 00:11:25.310 particular study, to what extent do we want to dictate national policy based on one study? 00:11:25.550 --> 00:11:29.550 Well, maybe this is more of an idea of something we might want to follow up on. 00:11:29.870 --> 00:11:35.710 Yeah, no, I definitely agree that there is an over-eagerness to um apply the 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:41.140 uh meager insights from our uh you know shoddy research um to 00:11:41.460 --> 00:11:43.940 policy to the world to overstate their implications. 00:11:44.740 --> 00:11:45.780 For better or for worse, right? 00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:46.900 For better or for worse, yeah. 00:11:48.420 --> 00:11:50.100 I I think we ought to humble ourselves more. 00:11:50.260 --> 00:11:54.580 But you know, I do take the point that uh if you're a general listener who is not in our 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:56.900 weird field, you want to know why this matters. 00:11:57.060 --> 00:12:00.820 Um and I, you know, of course, it's good to get to the research and state the evidence 00:12:00.820 --> 00:12:05.830 clearly and and all that, But also, you know, if someone's listening outside of this field, 00:12:05.990 --> 00:12:07.110 they want to know what's in it for them. 00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:08.310 Why should why they should care. 00:12:08.390 --> 00:12:10.070 And we should spend some time talking about that. 00:12:10.230 --> 00:12:12.310 I think that's that's a valid uh yeah. 00:12:12.470 --> 00:12:12.710 Yeah. 00:12:13.670 --> 00:12:17.750 I and I I don't want to spend too much time navel gazing and we'll we'll and we'll start 00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:19.110 the Pat episode in a second. 00:12:19.190 --> 00:12:21.110 But Pat, thanks for for being with us. 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:25.180 Um I also want to say like I think that uh there's I have two thoughts. 00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:29.580 One is, well, yeah, I mean, I agree with what the reviewer is saying to some degree, but I 00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:30.940 also agree with Pat that I disagree. 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:31.900 It's very confusing. 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:32.940 I shouldn't have said that. 00:12:33.100 --> 00:12:39.100 But um one thing is the people who are typically out there 00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:44.940 presenting themselves as representing evolutionary psychology are not the people that we 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:47.260 often recognize as people actually doing the work. 00:12:47.420 --> 00:12:53.070 And Pat is like a lovely example of somebody who's like who I think is 00:12:53.070 --> 00:12:57.790 doing, you know, has done so much of the backbone work on cooperation and solving the the 00:12:57.870 --> 00:12:59.550 the puzzles of cooperation. 00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:05.550 Um and and so one of the reasons to introduce people is to actually like introduce the 00:13:05.550 --> 00:13:09.070 people because like how are you going to get to know them if you don't hear something about 00:13:09.070 --> 00:13:09.310 them? 00:13:09.470 --> 00:13:14.990 Um so I agree that you know, maybe maybe we can cut it down from like an hour to like 40 00:13:14.990 --> 00:13:17.950 minutes, but I don't think it should just be like three minutes. 00:13:18.030 --> 00:13:19.630 Um and there's just different ways to do it. 00:13:19.800 --> 00:13:21.480 Um, there's there's a middle ground there. 00:13:21.640 --> 00:13:21.720 Yeah. 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:25.000 Um and and and certainly we've been trying to you know we're trying to get better at you 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:29.480 know defining jargon and making sure that you know stuff is you know properly accessible. 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:30.840 Yeah, it's done better at it. 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:32.040 These are the early days. 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:33.560 So uh but yeah, no, for sure. 00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:39.000 In in um when we have our guests on, um we're we're trying to sort of hang hang on, what 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:39.560 does this mean? 00:13:39.640 --> 00:13:41.480 But um but you can also look things up too. 00:13:41.560 --> 00:13:46.280 So, you know, and I do think there is a problem with sort of overhand holding to the point 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:49.370 of sort of exactly as Pat said, exploiting. 00:13:49.450 --> 00:13:55.050 So I think there's a problem of sort of I tell my kids in my classes that like be careful 00:13:55.050 --> 00:13:57.050 of like high production value things. 00:13:57.130 --> 00:14:01.130 Like I always tell them if somebody came up to you who's very attractive, well dressed, and 00:14:01.130 --> 00:14:02.490 they say, Hey, do you have a moment? 00:14:02.570 --> 00:14:04.490 Do I can I have a moment of your time? 00:14:04.650 --> 00:14:06.010 What do you immediately think? 00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:08.970 They're they're selling you something, right? 00:14:09.130 --> 00:14:14.880 And so this is just falls out of signaling where like if the things that are in your 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:20.400 interest are not going to be things that come at you loud or that spend a lot of 00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:23.120 effort on um on you. 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:26.320 So like be careful of high production value stuff, right? 00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:31.840 Uh and be careful of things people trying to sell you stuff in in this context, like you 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.920 know, it's a hundred percent the case that we're not always talking about the implications 00:14:35.920 --> 00:14:37.440 or why you should care. 00:14:37.850 --> 00:14:40.010 And maybe we can spend more time doing that. 00:14:40.170 --> 00:14:42.570 But that's also something for you to think about. 00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:48.410 And we're our job is to sort of be careful about the science. 00:14:48.890 --> 00:14:52.890 And I think there's too much stuff that doesn't understand the science and just is trying 00:14:52.890 --> 00:14:55.610 to sell you an implication that doesn't even fall out. 00:14:55.850 --> 00:14:58.650 And so it's it makes sense that these are issues. 00:14:58.730 --> 00:15:03.450 And I think this person's also probably coming from a place where if you've been fed 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:08.920 implications and interest to the point where it's actually even problematic, then it feels 00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:12.200 sort of like you're getting something you're not expecting. 00:15:12.920 --> 00:15:13.160 Yeah. 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:14.840 No, I totally buy all that. 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.160 But I would I would say that you know that point itself is an implication that should 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:25.000 matter to a general audience, that it's good to, you know, avoid being manipulated 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:30.550 by people who are exploiting, you know, one shoddy study and overstating its 00:15:30.550 --> 00:15:35.190 implications that this is a thing we should all be conscious of as consumers of 00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:35.830 information. 00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:41.670 Um so that is is potentially relevant and interesting to to people that aren't in our 00:15:41.670 --> 00:15:41.990 field. 00:15:42.390 --> 00:15:42.790 That's right. 00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:45.430 Uh wear red and be confident a hundred percent. 00:15:45.590 --> 00:15:47.670 Um you know if you wear red you'll be more confident. 00:15:47.750 --> 00:15:51.030 So wear red and you'll get the job and the mate you want, et cetera, et cetera. 00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:51.190 Yeah. 00:15:51.350 --> 00:15:53.510 That kind of stuff will yeah, try to avoid that. 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:54.540 Um, okay. 00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:56.460 Uh thank you, Pat, for being along for this. 00:15:56.540 --> 00:15:57.980 Do you have a final thought, Pat? 00:15:58.780 --> 00:16:01.180 Uh no, I guess I'm ready to uh ready to get going. 00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:03.820 All right, also thank thank you to Kiki sincerely. 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:08.860 Yes, it's for yeah, we really do care about uh these reviews and take them seriously. 00:16:09.020 --> 00:16:12.860 And please, uh if you have other comments, please let us know and we'll we will try to 00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:14.860 incorporate them as much as possible. 00:16:15.100 --> 00:16:20.530 Um and uh and read them again w while practicing discretion. 00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:21.650 So thank you again. 00:16:21.810 --> 00:16:26.290 Um and uh yeah we'll we'll see you see you Pat in a moment. 00:16:26.530 --> 00:16:26.850 Okay.