WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.120 David, where are we? 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:04.800 We are in Rabat, which is the capital of Morocco. 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:05.600 Yes, we are. 00:00:05.760 --> 00:00:11.520 And David, did you realize that this uh week is our one-year anniversary 00:00:11.680 --> 00:00:14.480 of uh of uploading uh episodes? 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:19.280 Wow, I mean I did know that because you told me before we started recording this, but it is 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:20.720 cool to be reminded of that fact. 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:21.600 Yes, yes. 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:25.920 So um so this this week we have a special mini episode. 00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:27.920 Um next week we'll go back to regular. 00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:28.240 Yep. 00:00:28.690 --> 00:00:31.810 But because we're in Robot, we just wanted to do something a little bit different. 00:00:32.370 --> 00:00:35.730 And we grabbed uh at least one person, maybe two. 00:00:35.810 --> 00:00:38.370 We'll see who this is, but at least we have Brett Beheim. 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:42.930 Um and uh but yeah, but it's been really nice to meet talk to people, people who are 00:00:42.930 --> 00:00:44.690 listening, uh people giving feedback. 00:00:45.170 --> 00:00:47.570 Yeah, um we we never mentioned why we're in robot. 00:00:48.130 --> 00:00:48.850 Uh right. 00:00:49.170 --> 00:00:54.580 Why are we in it's in the middle of the night. 00:00:54.740 --> 00:00:55.860 No, it's not the middle of the night for me. 00:00:55.940 --> 00:00:56.740 I don't yeah, I don't know. 00:00:57.220 --> 00:00:58.100 I'm a little jet lag. 00:00:58.660 --> 00:01:00.420 Feeling a little crummy, yeah. 00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:04.580 Yeah, and we're all kind of more mentally depleted to why so David, why are we in robot? 00:01:04.900 --> 00:01:10.820 Okay, we are in robot for the human behavior and evolutionary uh H B E S. 00:01:11.140 --> 00:01:13.780 H-B E S human behavior and Cultural Evolution Society was before. 00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:14.340 That's right. 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:14.580 Yeah. 00:01:14.820 --> 00:01:17.460 Uh so we're at the Human Behavior and Evolution Society Conference. 00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:22.190 Uh which is it the largest gathering of evolutionary social scientists in the world? 00:01:22.590 --> 00:01:26.270 Um well there's E B and uh I don't know. 00:01:26.510 --> 00:01:27.710 I don't know which one is bigger or something. 00:01:27.790 --> 00:01:28.190 I don't know. 00:01:28.430 --> 00:01:29.070 Doesn't matter. 00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:32.830 I I guess um That's a very American thing to be like which one's bigger. 00:01:33.070 --> 00:01:35.150 Or uh I suppose which one is higher quality. 00:01:35.230 --> 00:01:36.270 That's also a fraught. 00:01:36.350 --> 00:01:37.150 I I yeah. 00:01:37.470 --> 00:01:42.990 It's a it's one of one of the great coming together 00:01:43.390 --> 00:01:46.300 uh of um evolutionary behavioral science. 00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:52.460 Yeah, it does feel like a great pilgrimage for for everyone and re reunite reun you 00:01:52.460 --> 00:01:57.820 can't even speak reunification with friends and like-minded thinkers and and and just a 00:01:57.820 --> 00:02:01.180 great melting pot of different ideas and perspectives that is really exciting. 00:02:01.580 --> 00:02:07.470 Yeah and this this is a good HBAS NCS and lots of anthropology Really great, some people 00:02:07.470 --> 00:02:08.590 that we're going to have on the episode. 00:02:08.670 --> 00:02:10.750 Hopefully Hanukoko was one of the plenaries. 00:02:11.230 --> 00:02:12.670 Incredible Hanakoco. 00:02:12.830 --> 00:02:14.110 I'm super fan of Hanukoko. 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:15.150 Oh my brilliant. 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:18.430 Brilliant theoretical biologist that just totally blew my mind. 00:02:19.070 --> 00:02:20.750 Yeah, we'll have to have around in the future. 00:02:21.070 --> 00:02:25.230 Why are whales so big and why do they are they so slow lived? 00:02:26.030 --> 00:02:26.270 Yes. 00:02:26.590 --> 00:02:29.230 That was one of the many interesting questions that she answered. 00:02:29.600 --> 00:02:29.680 Yeah. 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:35.840 So yeah, uh we had a great time at HBES and um we managed to snag a bit of 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.720 Brett Beheim. 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:36.880 Yeah. 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.880 We we managed to snag a bit of his time uh after the conference and he shared some really 00:02:40.880 --> 00:02:45.280 interesting thoughts with us about uh the Neo-Darwinian synthesis and how we can make that 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:47.440 happen in the evolutionary social sciences. 00:02:47.760 --> 00:02:48.000 Yeah. 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:53.600 Uh so yeah, enjoy this very brief uh sort of like one year anniversary episode. 00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:59.510 We'll see you next week for our regular uh programming and uh and yeah thank you again to 00:02:59.510 --> 00:03:05.430 everybody who's been so wonderful uh giving us feedback and please keep um letting us know 00:03:05.430 --> 00:03:07.590 what might be of interest for the future. 00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:09.590 Please I'm looking forward to next year. 00:03:09.910 --> 00:03:10.390 I know. 00:03:10.550 --> 00:03:10.710 Yeah. 00:03:10.950 --> 00:03:12.470 We'll see you in year two. 00:03:12.950 --> 00:03:13.670 See you next week. 00:03:13.750 --> 00:03:13.990 Yeah. 00:03:14.710 --> 00:03:15.510 Which is next week. 00:03:15.750 --> 00:03:16.230 I know. 00:03:16.470 --> 00:03:16.710 All right. 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:17.560 bye everybody. 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:18.120 Bye. 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.960 Uh Brett, good to see you. 00:03:24.200 --> 00:03:25.320 Uh how's HBest going? 00:03:25.480 --> 00:03:26.600 Were you at Cultural Evolution? 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:28.200 Yeah, I was at Cultural Evolution. 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.840 And now I'm at HBest, so I get a little bit of both this time. 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:31.320 Nice. 00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:32.200 Best of both worlds. 00:03:32.440 --> 00:03:33.000 Best of both worlds. 00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:34.520 Do I be mics by the way? 00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:35.640 Uh we don't know yet. 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.440 Well I will listen to this I know. 00:03:42.310 --> 00:03:47.270 Um if you you nobody can see Brett is uh um looming. 00:03:47.510 --> 00:03:48.950 Yeah, looming Brett. 00:03:49.030 --> 00:03:49.750 Uh yeah. 00:03:49.990 --> 00:03:53.750 Now what has been your um favorite talk of your class so far? 00:03:54.550 --> 00:03:56.230 Oh man, that's tough. 00:03:56.390 --> 00:04:01.510 Um I really enjoyed one of the plenaries by Stephen Vasey that was um kind of a meta 00:04:01.750 --> 00:04:06.790 plenary because he was presenting as somewhat of a new person to the field of cultural 00:04:06.790 --> 00:04:09.910 evolution and he was coming from a sociology perspective. 00:04:10.160 --> 00:04:15.280 So he said, you know, uh it might be useful to consider some ideas that normally aren't 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.280 discussed in evolutionary social science, like the growth of institutions. 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:24.480 And he actually was also thinking about this in kind of a planning perspective. 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:30.240 Like uh evolutionary social sciences are getting bigger, uh, and cultural evolution in 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.390 particular is is sort of growing into maybe a mature something, but it's not clear what 00:04:34.390 --> 00:04:35.670 that something's going to be. 00:04:36.230 --> 00:04:42.070 And there's examples of things maturing into sustained fields that you know, 00:04:42.150 --> 00:04:46.710 things like cognitive science, network science, demography. 00:04:47.270 --> 00:04:50.550 These aren't really disciplines in the sense that there's like there's a department of 00:04:50.790 --> 00:04:53.750 well, there's departments of cognitive science, but there's usually not departments of 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:54.470 network stuff. 00:04:55.270 --> 00:04:59.350 For the most part, rather, it's a body of like techniques or ideas that different 00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:00.870 disciplines draw on. 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.320 And he advocated for that being maybe a model for cultural evolution. 00:05:04.640 --> 00:05:07.760 You know, different disciplines might use cultural evolution as a field. 00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:12.400 Rather than thinking about it as, you know, sometimes people think I sort of like an 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:15.760 empire, it's going to take over all the social sciences and bring evolution in, or 00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:16.400 something like that. 00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:22.400 And so that was a that was a really exciting plenary because he he gave historical examples 00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:25.920 where there were things that kind of fizzled out because they didn't really get the 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:26.880 institutions right. 00:05:27.350 --> 00:05:31.270 Uh and that led to a lot of productive discussions about I mean, should we have a journal? 00:05:31.430 --> 00:05:37.350 Uh should we have like a summer school that you know, like if if we look at the Population 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:43.270 Association of America and we see that as like CES in like forty, you know, seventy years, 00:05:43.430 --> 00:05:45.750 like what would be the sort of track that follows that? 00:05:45.910 --> 00:05:46.150 Yeah. 00:05:46.310 --> 00:05:51.060 Um so that was really exciting to to kind of s sort of zoom out and think about you know 00:05:51.140 --> 00:05:54.180 the growth of what we're all doing as an intellectual enterprise. 00:05:54.740 --> 00:05:57.460 You know, this is the basic question about how are people gonna get jobs. 00:05:57.700 --> 00:05:57.940 Yeah. 00:05:59.060 --> 00:06:02.580 If you're like, okay, you're gonna convince somebody to get into evolution, you know, you 00:06:02.580 --> 00:06:05.140 better be able to give them something that comes out of that, right? 00:06:05.380 --> 00:06:09.060 Which is are they gonna be able to get a job in an existing discipline where most of the 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:10.980 people aren't evolutionarily oriented, right? 00:06:11.220 --> 00:06:11.460 Yes. 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:12.420 And that's tough. 00:06:12.630 --> 00:06:14.710 Like I can definitely tell you that personally. 00:06:14.870 --> 00:06:15.190 Yeah. 00:06:16.630 --> 00:06:20.630 And it's not going to be the case that there's going to be an you know an evolutionarily 00:06:20.630 --> 00:06:23.190 oriented version of a discipline as a separate discipline. 00:06:23.430 --> 00:06:23.670 Right? 00:06:23.910 --> 00:06:24.230 Yeah. 00:06:24.870 --> 00:06:28.710 So I think we all face that actually, is kind of this this tension where it's like, well, 00:06:28.790 --> 00:06:32.470 we have an evolutionary orientation, we're trying to study specific problems, but we also 00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:36.360 have to be able to talk the talk in a in a disciplinary mode, right? 00:06:36.520 --> 00:06:36.840 Yeah. 00:06:37.400 --> 00:06:41.480 Uh and so there's like anthropology and then there's evolutionary anthropology, and there's 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.320 psychology and there's evolutionary psychology, right? 00:06:43.880 --> 00:06:44.920 And so on and so forth. 00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:45.320 Yeah. 00:06:45.400 --> 00:06:49.640 Um so I really enjoyed that kind of thinking about that as a as a general topic. 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:51.320 That was a big big part of the conference. 00:06:51.880 --> 00:06:52.040 Interesting. 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:54.360 And and what's your take on the answers to those questions? 00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:56.440 Like, should cultural evolution have a journal? 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:58.040 Should it have a summer school? 00:06:58.200 --> 00:07:03.970 Do you think it's better to view it as a set of techniques and methods rather than 00:07:04.210 --> 00:07:07.890 say a theoretical approach or a discipline. 00:07:08.290 --> 00:07:14.290 Well, uh Stephen Vasey had a had a nice take on it, which is like looking at fields, uh 00:07:14.370 --> 00:07:16.850 it's useful to think about what the field kind of owns. 00:07:17.010 --> 00:07:19.570 Like people look at that field as the authoritative place to go. 00:07:20.050 --> 00:07:21.810 So demography, I think it's pretty straightforward. 00:07:21.890 --> 00:07:27.330 It's like if you're thinking about population structure, age pyramids, um statistics like 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.290 life expectancy, you know, the actual stuff. 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.920 Like, I don't think anybody would say, oh, there's another field that is the experts on 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:36.360 that besides demography, right? 00:07:36.440 --> 00:07:39.800 Clearly, they have they have a lot of uh uh authority on that. 00:07:39.880 --> 00:07:41.480 And social network stuff is the same thing. 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:46.600 Like, you know, social network theory is the place to go to study network science. 00:07:46.840 --> 00:07:52.680 Um cultural evolution, I think it's it might be useful to focus on that 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:52.920 question. 00:07:53.080 --> 00:07:56.760 Like, what are the things that are uniquely valuable about cultural evolution in terms of 00:07:56.760 --> 00:07:57.240 studying it? 00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:00.090 So, like transmission, like transmission chain experiments. 00:08:00.250 --> 00:08:05.610 I mean, that's really something that the field has uh just done a tremendous amount of work 00:08:05.610 --> 00:08:05.690 on. 00:08:05.930 --> 00:08:10.490 And uh I think that's a that's a huge part of uh like kicking things like that. 00:08:10.650 --> 00:08:11.050 Yep. 00:08:11.290 --> 00:08:16.330 Um and uh uh I think that's that's generally true for evolutionary approaches. 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:20.090 Like there's a few, I mean evol evolution itself, like certain evolutionary concepts like 00:08:20.890 --> 00:08:23.290 differential reproduction or propagation. 00:08:23.450 --> 00:08:23.690 Yep. 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.120 tracking frequencies through time of some phenotype. 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:32.280 You know, this feels to me like this could be things where we say this is the authoritative 00:08:32.280 --> 00:08:36.920 body of knowledge that's used to study that, which is evolutionary approaches to humans. 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:44.120 Is a cultural evolutionary scientist studying the cultural evolution society as 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:46.440 a cultural evolutionary evolution? 00:08:47.430 --> 00:08:48.630 layers deep can I go in? 00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:51.270 People have thought of that joke before. 00:08:51.910 --> 00:08:56.950 Dave, maybe you should start a field called the evolutionary psychology of the evolutionary 00:08:56.950 --> 00:08:57.910 psychology of psychology. 00:08:58.470 --> 00:08:58.950 That's right. 00:08:59.510 --> 00:09:00.390 Say that again, sorry. 00:09:00.710 --> 00:09:03.750 The evolutionary psychology of the evolutionary psychology of psychology. 00:09:03.910 --> 00:09:05.350 Oh no, I've already been thinking about that. 00:09:06.150 --> 00:09:07.670 It's artifact psychology. 00:09:07.910 --> 00:09:08.870 Yeah, I know, that's true. 00:09:11.110 --> 00:09:12.390 No, it wasn't low hanging fruit. 00:09:12.470 --> 00:09:18.380 It was you know, it's kind of ironic because if we were talking about some 00:09:18.380 --> 00:09:24.140 physical science, like you know, the transition from you know some kind of chemical 00:09:24.140 --> 00:09:27.740 science, and you're saying, okay, we're incorporating like deep learning algorithms and 00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:28.940 developing molecules, right? 00:09:29.020 --> 00:09:29.100 Right. 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:32.940 That kind of transition could be the subject of this kind of a discussion too. 00:09:33.180 --> 00:09:33.340 Right. 00:09:33.740 --> 00:09:38.540 But we're actually we're talking about the thing that we're actually using to study that, 00:09:38.780 --> 00:09:38.940 right? 00:09:39.020 --> 00:09:41.020 That recursiveness is really interesting, right? 00:09:41.180 --> 00:09:47.110 Because it's like the dynamics of social organizations in a kind of Darwinian way, right? 00:09:47.270 --> 00:09:48.310 Like it is very meta. 00:09:48.630 --> 00:09:53.350 So do you see it as like you can bring cultural evolution into political science to see how 00:09:53.430 --> 00:09:58.550 like political beliefs uh propagate or political parties form or how coalitions form, or 00:09:58.550 --> 00:10:01.990 you can bring it into linguistics to see how linguistic practices spread, or you could 00:10:01.990 --> 00:10:07.200 bring it into uh archaeology to see how certain artifacts or uh pottery styles will spread 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:07.760 across a region. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:08.080 Yeah. 00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:11.120 Yeah. 00:10:11.280 --> 00:10:13.840 I mean I think there's something to be useful to be saying in every one of those. 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.080 I think there's a parallel here with the modern synthesis actually. 00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:23.040 Because right now social science as we all know is this this fragmented set of silos that 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:25.920 you know occasionally have interdisciplinary attempts, right? 00:10:26.110 --> 00:10:26.430 Yeah. 00:10:26.670 --> 00:10:31.790 Um but that was also pretty much true of biology, like 120 years ago, right? 00:10:31.950 --> 00:10:36.430 Uh that you had like geneticists and field biologists and botanists, and you know there 00:10:36.430 --> 00:10:41.070 wasn't a conceptual framework that connected everything together. 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:47.310 And the modern synthesis itself was this kind of team effort where you had authorities in 00:10:47.310 --> 00:10:51.230 each of these disciplines basically come together, you know, people like Stebbins and 00:10:51.230 --> 00:10:52.350 Ronald Fisher. 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:52.800 Yeah. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.720 And they kind of coalesced around a set of ideas that they then took back to their own 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.800 disciplines and advocated for very strongly. 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:02.640 And they were clearly successful. 00:11:02.800 --> 00:11:08.560 And think that that might be a good example of multiple disciplines getting synchronized in 00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:09.440 a way that they weren't before. 00:11:09.760 --> 00:11:11.360 Oh man, do we need that for the social science? 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:11.840 Right. 00:11:11.920 --> 00:11:14.640 And it was also around evolutionary ideas, too, right? 00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:15.120 Yeah, I know. 00:11:15.280 --> 00:11:17.200 So I mean we already have a model here, right? 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:18.640 I think there's a lot that could be done with that. 00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:20.160 What did they do that we're not doing? 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.840 Like what can we how can we copy them? 00:11:22.470 --> 00:11:26.390 I mean, again, I'm not an expert on this, but you know, I wasn't a college PhD, so I did 00:11:26.390 --> 00:11:27.110 learn a little bit about this. 00:11:27.350 --> 00:11:31.110 I went to the school Stebbins was at, for example, and Joe Bjansky and people like that. 00:11:31.350 --> 00:11:35.350 My guess is that the reason it worked is because every one of these people were already 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:36.550 authorities in their discipline. 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:42.150 So it wasn't like a new wave of obnoxious upstarts. 00:11:42.470 --> 00:11:42.630 Yeah. 00:11:42.870 --> 00:11:43.110 Right? 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:47.110 It was more that these are respectable people who all come together and like, yes, we're 00:11:47.110 --> 00:11:50.580 convinced that you know genetic models of selection are completely consistent with 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.660 Darwinian sort of gradual transformations, which was a big sticking point, right? 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.100 Because the Mendelians and the Darwinians were like, no, the models don't work together. 00:11:58.260 --> 00:11:59.780 And Fisher's like, yes, they do. 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:00.260 Right? 00:12:01.060 --> 00:12:06.180 And so you had a well now I'm like, you know, on my soapbox, which is that uh you also had 00:12:06.180 --> 00:12:07.220 the modeling framework. 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:10.340 You had a set of models that everybody else could sort of build around. 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:13.730 And that was mostly the work of Ronald Fisher and his immediate colleagues. 00:12:15.490 --> 00:12:20.130 But then you had field biologists and you had uh lab biologists who were also plugged into 00:12:20.130 --> 00:12:20.290 this. 00:12:20.530 --> 00:12:25.570 And they were able to say why and how their specific approaches were consistent with the 00:12:25.570 --> 00:12:26.450 modeling framework. 00:12:26.610 --> 00:12:30.450 And then, you know, basically as part of this larger program of the monosynthesis. 00:12:30.930 --> 00:12:32.210 So it was it was a success. 00:12:32.290 --> 00:12:35.650 Like it was clearly a success in the sense that you know you can get like a biology 00:12:35.650 --> 00:12:40.560 textbook now that frames everything as this conceptual unity, even though there's parts 00:12:40.560 --> 00:12:43.600 that are still a little bit, you know, kind of disagreements. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:45.520 So that's the part of science. 00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:47.520 Social science looks nothing like that right now. 00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:48.560 No, it really doesn't. 00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:50.480 So that's what I think we should do. 00:12:50.640 --> 00:12:54.080 That's my perspective is we need some kind of a modern synthesis for social science. 00:12:54.880 --> 00:13:00.720 And like then we saw NCS and hear like one from kind of archaeologists working in or 00:13:00.750 --> 00:13:02.030 and geographers working in Morocco. 00:13:02.350 --> 00:13:05.390 I mean it's like stuff yeah stuff I don't really think about and it is true that like 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:07.070 Morocco has like a lot to offer. 00:13:07.230 --> 00:13:11.790 It's like has a as going through like a renaissance of it's nice to have like other parts 00:13:11.790 --> 00:13:14.750 of the world kind of those gaps filled in as well. 00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:17.630 Um yeah, it's been good. 00:13:18.190 --> 00:13:18.590 Awesome. 00:13:19.150 --> 00:13:20.510 Do you guys have anything to say? 00:13:21.280 --> 00:13:22.800 Oh, my name is Brian Wood. 00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:25.440 I'm an anthropologist at UCLA. 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:30.800 I happen to do my research in East Africa and Tanzania, and hopefully we can imagine a HBS 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:34.640 taking place in in Dar es Salaam or Nairobi at some point. 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.840 Well I'd just like to say that as the first HBES to take place on the continent of Africa, 00:13:39.920 --> 00:13:42.850 this is a very big part of our society's history. 00:13:43.090 --> 00:13:48.850 And I think just to be a part of this growth of institutions in Africa, I can't think of 00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:50.450 any better thing to be a part of. 00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:56.450 And hopefully the repercussions of this will echo in the decades ahead, just as HPES has 00:13:56.450 --> 00:14:02.050 had a big impact on so many people uh in the US and and in Europe, I think we're we're 00:14:02.050 --> 00:14:02.770 global now. 00:14:02.930 --> 00:14:05.570 And and I think that's a fantastic moment to be a part of. 00:14:06.050 --> 00:14:10.360 And we were talking earlier today and we we have to have you on to talk about fear of 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:11.160 elephants. 00:14:11.880 --> 00:14:15.800 Uh you should all be afraid of elephants, and I can surely tell you why. 00:14:18.520 --> 00:14:18.920 Cool. 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:19.640 Thank you guys.