The conversation, in brief.
In this episode of the podcast, hosts Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof explore the evolutionary psychology of humor. David Pinsof introduces his new preprint theory proposing that humor and laughter evolved to signal and diffuse the potential costs of accidental social, linguistic, and cognitive mix-ups. The conversation covers key concepts including game-theoretic coordination, common knowledge, "vibing," and the role of humor as an encryption mechanism for filtering social partners. They also discuss embarrassment, political satire, the menacing nature of untracked mirth, slapstick comedy, and why comedy tends to age faster than drama due to its reliance on culturally relative norms.
Through the conversation.
18 sections010:00 – 6:06Introduction to the Evolutionary Psychology of Humor
Hosts Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsoff introduce the episode by poking fun at their own conversational style and introducing David's new preprint theory of humor. Dave Pietraszewski expresses his admiration for David's unique background combining professional comedy and evolutionary psychology, setting up a deep dive into the evolutionary mysteries of humor.
The host introduces the episode's special guest, David Pinsoff, and notes that they will be discussing his new theory of humor.
“what he's gonna talk about is how humor is sort of about making mistakes” 2:02
The guest explains that his motivation to study humor stemmed from the lack of a good evolutionary explanation for it.
“i was frustrated that there was not a good evolutionary theory of humor” 5:13
026:06 – 12:00Coordination Games and the Foundation of Human Interaction
The hosts discuss David's professional background bridging comedy and data science at Cards Against Humanity. They transition into the core theoretical concept of coordination games, detailing how mutual alignment, smooth social interaction, and what people call vibing form the basis for understanding social behavior and coordination.
The guest describes the basic mechanics of a simple coordination game involving mutual benefits and costs.
“If we both pick option one, we gain a benefit. And if we both pick option two, we gain a benefit.” 8:39
The guest suggests that the colloquial concept of vibing essentially represents effective social coordination for mutual benefit.
“I think vibing is a way of conveying what it's like to effectively coordinate with someone for mutual benefit.” 11:04
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss coordination games, explaining how mutual benefit and common knowledge are essential for human cooperation, group formation, and social organization, referencing historical examples and social media behavior.
Roughly, common knowledge in the game theoretic sense means that everyone knows that everyone knows something.
“Roughly, common knowledge in the game theoretic sense means that everyone knows that everyone knows something.” 13:09
Without that common knowledge, the whole concept of a group shatters.
“Without that common knowledge, the whole concept of a group shatters.” 17:09
The hosts examine how language, social status, and daily interactions rely on complex coordination games, suggesting that humor and laughter evolved to signal and diffuse the costs of accidental mix-ups and miscommunications.
Language itself is a massive coordination game where we have all agreed on which sounds correspond to which things in the world.
“Language itself is a massive coordination game where we have all agreed on which sounds correspond to which things in the world.” 18:21
And so that's what laughter is signaling. It's diffusing these potential costs and these anticipated costs that could emerge from this failure to coordinate.
“And so that's what laughter is signaling. It's diffusing these potential costs and these anticipated costs” 22:55
Hosts Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss linguistic mix-ups and misunderstandings, such as confusing temperature with arousal or mixing up phrases, arguing that natural selection favors systems to detect these errors. They propose that 'temptingness' or confusability is a core dimension of humor, where more understandable and similar misinterpretations generate greater comedic effect.
And you would expect natural selection to favor systems for detecting, anticipating, avoiding, and signaling these kinds of mix-ups
“natural selection to favor systems for detecting, anticipating, avoiding, and signaling these kinds of mix-ups” 25:49
The more tempting they are, the more similar the two interpretations are, the funnier it's going to be.
“The more tempting they are, the more similar the two interpretations are, the two words” 26:16
David Pinsof and Dave Pietraszewski examine the second component of humor: costliness, defined as the conceptual distance or misalignment between mixed-up elements. Using examples from Mitch Hedberg, Dave Chappelle, and the film Rat Race, they argue that extreme humor is driven by high-stakes, catastrophic mix-ups that function like supernormal stimuli.
The second component, I think, is costliness or the size of the mix-up as the discrepancy between the two things that are mixed up.
“second component, um, I think is uh costliness or uh the the size of the mix-up.” 30:04
You could not have engineered a situation like this, a mix up this costly and like this tempting.
“you could not have engineered a situation like this a mix up this costly and like this tempting.” 35:07
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss the evolutionary psychology of humor, proposing that humor is an adaptation selected for navigating social interdependence and avoiding costly coordination failures. They examine how a sense of humor allows individuals to detect and anticipate mix-ups, acting as a cognitive warning system that enhances social fitness.
I think it's an adaptation. I think there were strong selection pressures for to develop a sense of humor because the benefits of it were so great in our highly socially interdependent cooperative species.
“I think it's an adaptation. I think there were strong selection pressures for to develop a sense of humor” 37:26
The first part of the evolution of humor is just the the evolution of the sense of humor, just the ability to detect and anticipate and avoid mix-ups.
“the first part of the evolution of humor is just the the evolution of the sense of humor” 38:49
The hosts explore the role of laughter in repairing initial coordination costs and establishing common knowledge following a social misunderstanding. They also examine how sharing humor and appreciation for jokes signals social intelligence, helping individuals choose high-value coordination partners and mates.
If you have a really good sense of humor, if you're good at telling jokes, which signals that you're good at spotting and anticipating and avoiding mix-ups, well, that means that the benefits of coordinating with you are going to be higher
“If you have a really good sense of humor, if you're good at telling jokes, which signals” 45:56
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss how humor functions to filter individuals and coordinate on status games. They examine Flamson and Barrett's encryption theory of humor, explaining how jokes encode background and cultural knowledge to allow subcultural affiliation and covert social exclusion without causing overt interpersonal conflict.
Humor attempts are a way to filter people by like what um what status game we're all gonna coordinate on.
“Humor attempts are a way to filter people by like what um what status game we're all gonna coordinate on.” 49:02
When you tell a joke, what you're doing is you're encrypting a piece of information that can only be decrypted by people who share your background knowledge.
“when you tell a joke, what you're doing is you're encrypting um a piece of information that can only be decrypted” 49:36
The hosts explore developmental aspects of humor, including children's use of nonsense words and scatological themes like poop during potty training. They connect these developmental milestones to self-conscious emotions and analyze embarrassment as an ambiguous social situation where an audience struggles to coordinate on whether a person's status has fallen.
A passage from this discussion.
“what what humor content should be should be related to these um self-conscious emotions” 55:44
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss how embarrassment functions to preserve social status after a mix-up through blushing and laughter. They examine adolescent shyness, what happens when embarrassment turns into humiliation or shame, and how Andy Kaufman's performances playfully manipulate these social dynamics.
When you're embarrassed, the best strategy is to try to tip the scales in favor of your status staying the same.
“try to tip the scales in favor of your status staying the same” 1:00:27
The speakers explore mirth and amusement as mechanisms that deactivate negative emotions like anger and fear to nullify the costs of mix-ups. They analyze how humor acts as a political weapon of anti-seriousness by disrupting coalitions, and how mockery is used during political competition to frame rivals as poor social partners.
A passage from this discussion.
“we cannot afford to activate mirth and deactivate um the negative emotions that we need to” 1:10:27
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss how political satire highlights hypocrisy and moral confusion through shared social norms. They then examine comic timing, explaining how subtle micro coordination games involving volume, pacing, gestures, proximity, tone, and timing form the toolkit of comedic actors and performances.
And so a lot of political satire, I think, is about pointing out the hypocrisies of the other side
“And so a lot of political satire, I think, is about pointing out the hypocrisies of the other side” 1:13:29
And so they're all these really subtle micro coordination games we play every time we have any kind of conversation
“And so they're all these really subtle micro coordination games we play every time we have any kind of conversation” 1:17:07
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof explore why creepy smiles, evil laughs, and scary clowns evoke deep dread by examining the adaptive function of mirth. They explain that mirth deactivates fear, empathy, and cost-processing, making a mirthful individual uniquely menacing, unpredictable, and impossible to negotiate with.
So if the function of mirth is to deactivate emotions that process costs, then if you're in a state of mirth, you're gonna be a really menacing and dangerous person
“So if the function of mirth is to deactivate emotions that process costs, then if you're in a state of mirth, you're gonna be a really menacing and dangerous person” 1:20:11
There's something really scary about that, that you there's nothing you can do to negotiate with or deter a mirthful person
“There's something really scary about that, that you there's nothing you can do to negotiate with or deter a mirthful person” 1:21:07
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss the social benefits of affiliating with funny individuals, such as easier coordination and cultural alignment, and explore how absurdism and non-literal mix-ups generate humor without requiring exact source identification.
There are a number of benefits to affiliating with funny people.
“there are a number of benefits to affiliating with funny people” 1:25:07
The theory entails that we laugh to diffuse and nullify the costs of mix-ups.
“the theory entails that we laugh to sort of diffuse and nullify the costs of these of mix-ups” 1:28:12
The hosts examine why comedy ages faster than drama due to its heavy reliance on culturally relative coordination games and social norms, and they analyze physical slapstick as coordination failures and harmless physical mix-ups.
Comedy is culturally relative because what counts as a mix-up varies across cultures and languages.
“comedy is going to be culturally relative, right? What w what counts as a mix-up in one culture is going to be different” 1:32:14
Much of physical slapstick involves failures of two people coordinating.
“a lot of uh uh physical slapstick involves failures of two people coordinating” 1:35:00
Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof discuss how slapstick comedy relies on coordination failures surrounding physical injury and frame shifts between viewing humans as conscious beings versus physical objects. They examine lowbrow humor, physical expectations, rhythmic movement violations, and the evolutionary psychology of humor theories.
Slapstick involves potential mix-ups over how seriously to take a sudden physical injury.
“every time someone gets injured, we all have to coordinate on how” 1:36:47
Humor can arise when a person is temporarily framed as a physical object rather than a conscious agent.
“the frame shifts from viewing them as a locus of of consciousness to a physical object” 1:37:58
In the concluding segment, Dave Pietraszewski and David Pinsof wrap up the episode with housekeeping reminders, banter about clichéd quotes, and a satirical take on the evolutionary psychology of inspirational sayings and cave paintings.
The hosts jokingly banter about the evolutionary history and reproductive benefits of sharing short quotes.
“quotes are sexy and you might get some reproductive success.” 1:44:58